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SSD issues

New installs of XigmaNAS.
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was-armandh
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SSD issues

#1

Post by was-armandh » 21 Dec 2018 15:33

OOPS I forgot the.....First rule of thumb "avoid troublesome hardware"

Now that Swap is near mandatory a very good USB stick or SSD seems so as well.
the usual 3 step basic install stays the same
1] down load and burn the live OS.
2] install on a bootable medium.
3] set up LAN, drives and services.
getting the OS on to the medium and getting that to boot is usually where the fun begins
found an odd SSD cheap BUT nothing other than a MBR partition and legacy OS would work
I have used MBR where older 64 bit hardware would boot none other.
this was the first where none other could be written to the SSD
the live XigmaNAS could not create a GPT partition with the off brand SSD
no problem with Intel or HP brands https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 57&bih=717

update NOW "for a few dollars more"
price keeps getting lower on several HP 120 Gb SSD
Last edited by was-armandh on 23 Jan 2019 12:19, edited 4 times in total.
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JoseMR
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Re: SSD issues

#2

Post by JoseMR » 23 Dec 2018 04:19

was-armandh wrote:
21 Dec 2018 15:33
found an odd SSD cheap BUT nothing other than a MBR partition and legacy OS would work
Maybe an firmware modified device, or cheap flash chips connected trough a crappy controller, commonly sold by select Chinese eBay/Amazon sellers.

This devices usually report wrong(exaggerated) features such as notoriously large capacities, I've seen/tested on hand a customer 1TB No-Brand USB Stick($5 cost ) for recovery service, and found that the device was actually a 128GB with the firmware modified to report 1TB, users should simply avoid this products, not even worth fixing they firmware to report the correct space.

Additionally, most of this overly cheap products, and of course SSD's, are products with defective parts that wont passed QC and/or have some minor issues/glitches that can't be sold "branded" by the manufacturer, hence such other companies buy those batches at a very low cost, and sell this unbranded products for a fraction of the money.

Between I would zero-fill that disk before anything else and re-test.

Regards
System: FreeBSD 12 RootOnZFS, MB: Supermicro X8SI6-F, Xeon X3450, 16GB DDR3 ECC RDIMMs.
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was-armandh
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Re: SSD issues

#3

Post by was-armandh » 23 Dec 2018 17:44

yep; name brands from now on.
I did use G-parted to wipe and re do the whole lot

"off brand" also sells the same 60 Gb size with a Marvell controller for more than 2x the price.
I can get name brand [HP] twice the size [120 Gb] for a bit less than 2x the price and ordered 2 for the future.

re swap usage [see next]
none have gone over 200 Mb.
Last edited by was-armandh on 06 Jan 2019 13:21, edited 1 time in total.
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lux
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Re: SSD issues

#4

Post by lux » 27 Dec 2018 22:48

was-armandh wrote:
21 Dec 2018 15:33
Now that Swap is near mandatory...
Not really, If your System ist using SWAP - it is misconfigured...

add more RAM & try tuning your System such as ARC min and ARC max If you are using ZFS

my System is not using any SWAP but it has default SWAP installed (512MB)
Home:11.2.x.6743/emb@32GB USB|1270v2@X9SCA-F|ECC32GB|i340-T4[lagg@GS108Tv2&smb-mch]|M1015@IT|9HDD~40TB@3xRaidZ1+1HDD+2SSD i335&i520+1xi800P@ZIL|~44W idle@SS-400FL2|Nanoxia Deep Silence 6B|24/7
Services: CIFS, FTP, TFTP, SSH, NFS, Rsync, Syncthing, Webserver, BitTorrent, VirtualBox | Extensions: OBI, TheBrig[Emby, certbot, Asterisk] | Extensions self installed: Streamripper, Pi-hole@Debian9 VM
Test:12.x/emb@16GB USB|X3 420e@M4A88TD-V|16GB|i350-T2|M1015@IT|7xHDD+1xSSD[different Size&Brand]RaidZ1+2|for TESTing only

was-armandh
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Re: SSD issues

#5

Post by was-armandh » 21 Jan 2019 20:16

last update
for a few dollars more the HP SSD just works
don't waste your time with questionable excrement

the test cheapo SSD will not boot correctly on AMD hardware except the MBR legacy ver.
on Intel hardware it works, so....
I set up a speed test on my work bench test sled for my first ZFS on root full install and speed test.
if it is slower than other embedded Xi, it wont be the computer MOBO hardware that is the issue.
z600.JPG
backing up this i7 box as I type and... about 15 minutes [50%] slower than the other embedded mirror back up.
but not against the same hardware so changing to embedded the results are the equally slow.
conclusion; it is something else NOT Xi in either form. likely the old data drive I used for the test.


third testing
I noticed a very fine print sticker on the bottom of the cheapo SSD
a name and key number that lead me to a very poorly reviewed cloning software.
one win-10 user described results I experienced with a good cloning tool
[both drives data wrecked by a confused windows 10 when booted together]

looks as if the drives were repackaged with cloning software removed, or not sent with,
although the packaging still has cloning instructions the software was gone.

back to the base line, partitions removed. partition table installed anew. zero filled
and on Intel hardware [workbench test sled 2x quad core Xeon HP 600] ZFS "full" on root loaded

next to see if it will boot on AMD hardware and how much slower it is if any.
I suspect some what slower because while SSDs are faster than HDDs,
they are, I suspect, no where near as fast as
the main memory wide buss connected ram [ram-drive embedded XigmaNAS]

results for this under 20 USD 60Gb SSD with Full on ZFS to follow.

second test
further update on "Silicon Power" brand SSD
either incompatible or MBR only
after zeroing out to run GPT
works fine on intel based hardware
failed on AMD hardware.
[May work with legacy install, to be tested, eventually]
[tested; legacy does work with this off brand SSD on AMD]
CAVEAT EMPTOR

However, starting at $22.99, name brand [HP] "for a few dollars more" are 2xGb + perfect
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 57&bih=717

first fix
time finally permitting I zero filled the drive [Acronis tools]
and this time the recommended embedded GPT loaded as it should
but would not correctly boot GPT on my AMD hardware
chances are it was some sort of "compatibility" software
these are from the other china [TW]
now at $19 [new egg] but, zeroed out, they are not fully compatible
would be better if it was a more advanced design and fully compatible

thanks for the suggestion [partial fix]
my advise: for a few dollars more skip the POS and get the name brand SSDs
POS brand is now doing extended testing with a HP standing ready for a failure
Armand


JoseMR wrote:
23 Dec 2018 04:19
was-armandh wrote:
21 Dec 2018 15:33
found an odd SSD cheap BUT nothing other than a MBR partition and legacy OS would work
Between I would zero-fill that disk before anything else and re-test.

Regards
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by using this free advise, you, your heirs, etc
absolve, save, and hold harmless the advisor.
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JoseMR
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Re: SSD issues

#6

Post by JoseMR » 02 Feb 2019 05:21

Hi armand, thanks for posting detailed testing about that generic SSD, while zero filling may fix misbehaving drives with metadata/leftovers, it wont fix generic drives with modified firmware and/or with crappy bridge controllers(as previously denoted), one notorious symptom for this cheap devices are that after properly formatted and OS installed, they usually wont boot or just causes unexpected boot errors etc.

Also I agree that on Embedded Platforms, the OS is faster since they run of a RAM disk which is way faster than SATA/IDE as you denoted, however this is too negligible if the user is running RootOnZFS(Full Platform) of an HDD/SSD rather than a USB device, remember that the OS will mostly deals with very small/text files once loaded.

P.S Thanks again for taking the time on testing RootOnZFS on AMD/Intel hardware, while RootOnZFS Platform may be overkill for a simple home NAS, the user simply can't go wrong with its features and resilience, definitely worth a try.

Regards
System: FreeBSD 12 RootOnZFS, MB: Supermicro X8SI6-F, Xeon X3450, 16GB DDR3 ECC RDIMMs.
Addons at GitHub
JoseMRPubServ
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was-armandh
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Re: SSD issues

#7

Post by was-armandh » 03 Feb 2019 14:18

I am just happy to see good name brand SSD under $25 for either boot method.
booting requires a degree of real mode hardware compatibility not present in all USB connected hardware.
[not to mention the write wear problems of cheaper flash]

with good SSDs, add redundant RootOnZFS and it is really enterprise class reliability.

however the non commercial "free" nature may limit large scale business use
Business interruption insurers being a nervous lot.
[A.P. Moller-Maersk hack comes to mind for the risk size]
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp ... J2JLmACG2U
by using this free advise, you, your heirs, etc
absolve, save, and hold harmless the advisor.
CAVEAT EMPTOR
YMMV

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