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multiple pools under 1 share

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Downloadski
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multiple pools under 1 share

#1

Post by Downloadski » 02 Jan 2013 13:02

I have tried to find this info on multiple sites (Oracle included) but not could find the answer.

I am now running a unraid server, but had multiple issues there, so want to migrate to Nas4Free.
For testing i built up a server with a 320 GB system drive and 5 1 TB data drives. It took me some time but it does all i want now: copy movies to it from PC with decent speeds, and play them back on my hdi dune.

So far so good. Now i need to figure a way out to create the space for my movies, around 45 TB.
All my reading resulted in a setup with 20 hdd's. 10*3TB and 10*4TB in 2 times a 8+2 RaidZ2 vdevs.

I understood when i assign these 2 VDEV's in one ZFS Pool, they are basically striped. Speed wise they are about the same (Hitachi 7K4000 and Toshiba DT01ACA300 - which is a Hitachi 7K3000)

If i understood it right i can make one share for this, so my media player sees this with 1 mapping to the server.

But i also found a number of oppinions on freenas/openidiana forums where people wrote better to make multiple pools with smaller vdevs.
If i understood it right i need to make a share to every Pool.

Now my question: can i make one share for multiple pools ?

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raulfg3
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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#2

Post by raulfg3 » 02 Jan 2013 13:37

Downloadski wrote:Now my question: can i make one share for multiple pools ?
NO, one share=one folder in one pool.
Downloadski wrote:So far so good. Now i need to figure a way out to create the space for my movies, around 45 TB.
All my reading resulted in a setup with 20 hdd's. 10*3TB and 10*4TB in 2 times a 8+2 RaidZ2 vdevs
You can create a big pool of several vdev, no problem:

1- create 2 vdev (8+2)x3TB in raidZ2 and (8+2)x4TB in RaidZ2 and next create a big pool using both previosly created Vdev ( recomended option, because you can grow later using other vdev (if you have enought space in box and SATA controllers))

see recomendations for best nº of disk in RaidZ2=http://forums.freenas.org/showthread.ph ... IDZ-config

10 is a good number of disk for a RaidZ2

read ZFS best practices guide to best comprension of ZFS : http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/in ... ices_Guide


and some general ideas on: http://forums.freenas.org/showthread.ph ... -for-noobs!


PD: I'm curious about your case, 20HD need a big,big case, see others user sollutions on viewtopic.php?f=63&t=1971
12.0.0.4 (revision 6766)+OBI on SUPERMICRO X8SIL-F 8GB of ECC RAM, 12x3TB disk in 3 vdev in RaidZ1 = 32TB Raw size only 22TB usable

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#3

Post by Downloadski » 02 Jan 2013 14:17

Thanks for the fast answer..

I found and read both links already in the last few days, good info there. Also why i came up with 8+2 raidZ2

So i will re-read those threads and most likely go for 1 pool with the 2 proposed vdevs.


As for the hw setup:
I am using unRaid servers now in 2 x case Cooler Master stc-t01 with 4x Norco HDR-5 5in3 modules. Cooled with Noctua PWM coolers via a script that adapts the rotations speed to the heat of the discs. This system will get 2 times a M1015 in IT mode and 4 interfaces on the mainbord as my Supermicro aoc-sas2lp-mv8 cards seems not supported.
Mainbord is a Supermicro X9SAE-V with a E3-1265L-v2 with 16 GB of memory. PSU is a raidsonic x760 platinum.

I have all this hardware from the unraid setup and get sick of the issues with i assume the software.
- Sometime the upload speed is 70+ MB/sec, other times 3.5-10 MB/sec.
- Sometimes movies stream ok, other time they run choppy.
- reballed drive. Than only solution is to rebuilt the hdd and run again a verify as far as i could find. (but what was wrong you never find out ???)
This happened when i did work on the power switch led lighting and started a parity check. It cannot write to a hdd - timeout and declares it bad.

I hope that with FreeBSD and ZFS i at least have a little more stability on the file system, and hope it is little resistant to a hdd hickup (not a real failure)

Will start with the vdev with the 10* 3TB, 3 re-used ones (4 weeks old) and 7 new bought ones.
Than migrate the data off my 6* 4 TB HDD's and built the 2nd vdev up with the 7 old (one is the parity for the system) and 3 new 4 TB drives. (need to re-calculate the parity in between as the 7th 4TB is parity and i need to re-allocate a 2TB for that.

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#4

Post by Downloadski » 05 Jan 2013 13:09

After some thought i will create more than one pool. Have movies for my stephdaughter and can better put them in a seperate pool with a seperate share so she sees only movies intended for her.

Thanks for the feedback on the questions.

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#5

Post by raulfg3 » 05 Jan 2013 13:38

ok, but you still can have like you want : a one big pool and create 2 folders, one called Videos , and other called FatherVideos, and do the same that you want (share both folders with diferent share name) , but use more eficintly space on disk (eg: do not waste space on Father pool if is not used, on others words, you can use all the space of the big pool for all your shares and do not limit any of them.
12.0.0.4 (revision 6766)+OBI on SUPERMICRO X8SIL-F 8GB of ECC RAM, 12x3TB disk in 3 vdev in RaidZ1 = 32TB Raw size only 22TB usable

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#6

Post by Downloadski » 07 Jan 2013 22:28

That is a good idea, i still think not in in the zfs way...
Have plenty of hdd's to test if i have the first server up. All the needed hdd's have arrived. I did copy all the data of the discs i need formthe 3tb disk vdev off them, so i can start removing them.
I can bult up a 2nd server for the movies of my steph daughter with the smaller disks i have left. Now a 14 drive unraid server with 1 TB drives. That data can go on the 2 new vdevs also.
So i will have like 20 * 1 TB drives, 5 * 1.5 TB and 3 * 2.0 TB left to built a 2 nd / 3rd server with. I ordere some new 5in3 drive cages (10 euro each) so i can try to add more than 20 drives in one case. Only need additional m1015 cards as my sas2lp supermicro controllers do not work under BSD.

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#7

Post by raulfg3 » 08 Jan 2013 09:01

remember that if you reuse some disk, you need to wipe it to avoid not detected disk in N4F ( this is because if N4F detect a used disk do not permit to use it on other pool to avoid lost of data), if disk are new you don not have problem to use it.

http://wiki.nas4free.org/doku.php?id=faq:0129
12.0.0.4 (revision 6766)+OBI on SUPERMICRO X8SIL-F 8GB of ECC RAM, 12x3TB disk in 3 vdev in RaidZ1 = 32TB Raw size only 22TB usable

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#8

Post by Downloadski » 09 Jan 2013 19:47

I did test with 5 hdds form unraid server. These were recongniced ok with reiserfs format ( recognised this filesystem it seems)

And no problems for nfs raidz1 format.

For the new nas4free server i will use 7 x 4TB and 3 x 3TB used hdds, 3 new 4TB, and 7 x 3TB new hdds.

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#9

Post by fsbruva » 10 Jan 2013 13:51

Raul is right - the "best" option is to create one big pool. However, the idea of maintaining a 10 disk vdev makes my head hurt a little, only because no incremental upgrade of the disk size within each vdev is possible. However, with 56 TB of space, I suppose you don't really envision increasing your storage requirements anytime soon.

Additionally, I would recommend creating datasets whenever possible, rather than folders. Datasets can be shared via SMB and other methods just like folders, but are their own ZFS entity (snapshot, encryption, compression capable).

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#10

Post by Downloadski » 10 Jan 2013 21:35

Well, if i put 10 drives in vdev 1 and 10 drives in vdev 2 under one pool, and 2 drives in one pool fail i cannot access any movie.
And now i will have enough space indeed 8x4 + 8x3 + 2x2 + 4x1.5 + 8x1 + 8x1 = 82TB

Rumours is that we might get 500/500 mbps subscription, so downloading more movies is not an issue (still legal where i live)

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#11

Post by ChriZathens » 10 Jan 2013 21:56

In a pool with 2xraidz vdevs you can afford loosing 2 disks, as long as they are not from the same vdev. So it is almost the same as if you create 2 separate pools with one raidz vdev each, when it comes to disk failures.
The advantage of separate pools is that if you loose 2 disks from a single vdev pool, you will loose a smaller pool.
The advantage of one pool is that you have unified space.
Also keep in mind that with all the drives you have, you can create raidz2 or raidz3 vdevs.
You will loose a few TB of space, but the combination of zfs and the ability for 2 or 3 disk failures will essentially make your data bulletproof...
A recommendation for your disks:
8x4TB --> raidz2 (~24TB - can afford 2 drive failures)
8x3TB --> raidz2 (~18TB - can afford 2 drive failures)
8x1TB --> raidz2 (~6TB - can afford 2 drive failures)
8x1TB --> raidz2 (~6TB - can afford 2 drive failures)
4x1.5TB --> raidz (~4.5TB - can afford 1 drive failure)
2x2TB --> mirror (~2TB - can afford 1 drive failure)
Total about 60TB - a lot of space lost but a lot of data safety

Off topic: You posted that you bought 5 in 3 hdd cages for €10....Man you are lucky...Where do you live? In Greece I find 4 in 3 and they are about €100 each (Ok they are icy docks which are expensive everywhere, but the fact is that I cannot find cheap ones and certainly not for €10 each....)
My Nas
  1. Case: Fractal Design Define R2
  2. M/B: Supermicro x9scl-f
  3. CPU: Intel Celeron G1620
  4. RAM: 16GB DDR3 ECC (2 x Kingston KVR1333D3E9S/8G)
  5. PSU: Chieftec 850w 80+ modular
  6. Storage: 8x2TB HDDs in a RaidZ2 array ~ 10.1 TB usable disk space
  7. O/S: XigmaNAS 11.2.0.4.6625 -amd64 embedded
  8. Extra H/W: Dell Perc H310 SAS controller, crosflashed to LSI 9211-8i IT mode, 8GB Innodisk D150SV SATADOM for O/S

Backup Nas: HP N40L (4x1TB HP branded Seagate disks in RaidZ configuration - 8GB ECC RAM)

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#12

Post by Downloadski » 10 Jan 2013 23:13

The 5in3 box i have are from norco. Very simple boxes hdr5v2 https://ri-vier.eu/5-bay-mobile-rack-mo ... p-104.html

I had the v1 versions, but these seems better. They are NOT hot swap, better to say, real cold swap, you need to dismantle a lot for a drive swap. But i was building 2 servers and not wanted to pay 100 euro for a 5 slot hotswap box where i needed 8 from. I invested rather in new hdds

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#13

Post by fsbruva » 11 Jan 2013 01:56

Downloadski wrote:Well, if i put 10 drives in vdev 1 and 10 drives in vdev 2 under one pool, and 2 drives in one pool fail i cannot access any movie.
This is not correct. If you have two raidz2 vdevs, then you can tolerate 4 drives failing, as long as only two are from the same vdev.

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Re: multiple pools under 1 share

#14

Post by Downloadski » 11 Jan 2013 09:36

Thanks for pointing that out.

Other advantage is that i can have one pool spindown when i playback from the other pool.
Server is in my ht room, so noise does matter. I did put some noise insulating stuff on the old cm stacker cases, and that does help a lot.

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