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Full vs embedded upgrade

New installs of XigmaNAS.
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captjohn
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Full vs embedded upgrade

#1

Post by captjohn » 05 Sep 2019 20:27

I am setting up a very basic NAS for the sole purpose of saving my server backups to. The plan is to use old PC not in use with a 64GB SSD for the OS disk and one 8TB WD RED for the NAS. My question is do I use the full or embedded install. Since the boot disk is a SSD some of the comments I have read about extra disk spinning and power is not a issue. Probably the one factor that will decide is how to upgrade the system in the future. I have not found any documents that describe how to do upgrades for both of the installs. Any help with describing the upgrade process would be appreciated.

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apollo567
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Re: Full vs embedded upgrade

#2

Post by apollo567 » 05 Sep 2019 21:28

I think embedded is easier to handle and does the Job.
Maybe you should consider to use a 3+ disk configuration for the data with at least ZFS1
Many asume you should use ECC Ram !
my NAS and its development until today: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=39&sid=039fed830cf ... 4d0abe4a04

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raulfg3
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Re: Full vs embedded upgrade

#3

Post by raulfg3 » 05 Sep 2019 22:45

ZFSOnRoot is the best of 2 worlds
12.0.0.4 (revision 6766)+OBI on SUPERMICRO X8SIL-F 8GB of ECC RAM, 12x3TB disk in 3 vdev in RaidZ1 = 32TB Raw size only 22TB usable

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was-armandh
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Re: Full vs embedded upgrade

#4

Post by was-armandh » 07 Sep 2019 21:06

any of the three should do
the question of how old, and....
other hardware factors such as
how much RAM or processor threads vs expected speeds,
the BIOS ability to boot non MBR, might play a part..
easy enough to test all three
by using this free advise, you, your heirs, etc
absolve, save, and hold harmless the advisor.
CAVEAT EMPTOR
YMMV

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JoseMR
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Re: Full vs embedded upgrade

#5

Post by JoseMR » 08 Sep 2019 01:12

captjohn wrote:
05 Sep 2019 20:27
I am setting up a very basic NAS for the sole purpose of saving my server backups to. The plan is to use old PC not in use with a 64GB SSD for the OS disk and one 8TB WD RED for the NAS. My question is do I use the full or embedded install. Since the boot disk is a SSD some of the comments I have read about extra disk spinning and power is not a issue. Probably the one factor that will decide is how to upgrade the system in the future. I have not found any documents that describe how to do upgrades for both of the installs. Any help with describing the upgrade process would be appreciated.

Hi, I don't what to be over complicated here nor to make things so, but it may be worth to describe how the upgrade progress work on both platforms with some illustrated diagrams to help understanding it better, even though it may be over simplified.

XigmaNAS Embedded Platform(The preferred installation choice) has a single ended upgrade process, I meant that if something goes wrong during this upgrade request(such a sudden power lost), the user may need to reinstall the operating system and restore the config again, which is no big deal for a home/SOHO user.

The below simplified diagram I've made illustrates the Embedded Upgrade process:
Embedded Firmware Upgrade Process.png
As you can see the System first reads from Disk, then Extract the running Image to RAM, then the OS becomes alive, so the FW Upgrade request will overwrite the Root partition on-the-fly and will try to reboot from it after completion.

=============

Now in Full RootOnZFS Platform, things may seems abit more complex with ZFS but actually, nobody should be overwhelmed by it, and many may actually benefit from its resilience and redundancy, though the user may need at least 2 mirrored drives for the later.

So what this meant, in the RootOnZFS Platform upgrade process, the OS will create a separate and bootable Boot Environment while at the same time leaving the previous working Boot Environment intact(though the user can delete older on demand), so if you don't like the new XigmaNAS upgrade changes or something went wrong, you can simply rollback(think like Windows Shadow copies, or MAC's Time Machine but better) and go back in working order with just few click or by CLI as well, and that is not limited too, you can also backup the whole OS into a single compressed file and restore later as well if things go south with your boot drive(s).

The below simplified diagram I've made illustrates the RootOnZFS Upgrade process:
Full RootOnZFS Firmware Upgrade Flowchart(Mirror).png
=============

Additional Information:
XigmaNAS RootOnZFS Platform
An introduction to Boot Environments by Sławomir Wojciech Wojtczak(vermaden).
ZFS Powered Magic Upgrades by Allan Jude.

Additional Utilities/Extensions:
Optional Boot Environments GUI Manager can be found HERE
Optional Boot Environments CLI/TUI Manager Tool can be found HERE

TL;DR It may boils down to user preference and ability to manage a server in case of a home/SOHO usage, while a platform with redundancy and reliability such as RootOnZFS may target a more serious production usage case.

P.S:
XigmaNAS Full running on UFS was not taken in consideration as it does NOT support Firmware Upgrades by the WebGUI(Live OS), however it can be upgraded off-line by booting from any LiveMedia and require physical console access or IPMI/BMC, also same as Embedded, if something goes wrong a system reinstall will be needed as both uses the UFS File system.

Regards
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System: FreeBSD 12 RootOnZFS, MB: Supermicro X8SI6-F, Xeon X3450, 16GB DDR3 ECC RDIMMs.
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Maurizio
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Re: Full vs embedded upgrade

#6

Post by Maurizio » 10 Sep 2019 21:00

+1 for Root On ZFS (full)
XigmaNAS 11.2.0.4 on Dell R710 144GB RAM - RootOnZFS zroot on 2x 64GB 15k HDDs in mirror, zdata on 3x 1TB SSD in RAIDZ1.
2x XigmaNAS 11.2.0.4 - RootOnZFS on HPE Proliant Microserver gen10 X3216 - 3x 4TB WD RED. In mirror with zrep.

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